STAY CLEAR OF WINABINGO........ Don't let their new "upgraded" site fool you. They have recently changed their software, added new games and have revamped the look of their site!! This is a just another ruse to scam new unsuspecting players who are not aware that WInabingo has operated under many different names and has years of history of using house representative players that play against unsuspecting real players. In addition, they preselect their winners in both Bingo and Slot play. The same players win over and over again. If a player asks a host about the house players in their chat forum that player is banned from chatting with other players. Winabingo continually denies they use house players even though prior to their "upgrade" they actually stated it their Official Rules. However, their Official rules were so difficult to to interpret most players simply did not understand the terms. Moreover, since their "upgrade" they have removed those rules all together. They have lost 100's of players but still seem to have the ability to convince new players to join by giving them a free bonus. I would like to post my "live support" communications with their regarding house players hosts as well as my emails and responses form their "administrators" and provide an educated interpretation of their 'official rules.' The more people who hear about this fraudulent site the better. I hope an administrator from Bingo Players Union will let me know if I am allowed to post the information on this forum. The more people who hear about this fraudulent site the better. I also would love to hear what Bingo Players Administrators have heard about this site. I hope the BPU will allow this to be a new Forum topic forum topic. I noticed you have multiple complaints from users in you complain forum on this site but they date back several years. A new topic in a forum easily viewed might be helpful. As soon as I get an ok form BPU I will post my recent communications with Winabingo administrators!! Thanks, Cabakers

Hi cabakers Welcome to BPU. Feel free to post any information you have. If you post a copy of an email, I would XXX out your email address, as it could be harvested by a spammer.

I revisited their site! Their wagering rules are very confusing, 20 to 40 times? Also! Minimum time to process your withdrawal is 2 weeks

To Bingo Players Union Administrators:

Thank you for responding so quickly. I want to say in advance that I feel I gave Winabingo every opportunity to respond to multiple concerns regarding their seemingly fraudulent activities before taking further action. While at first Winabingo did respond to some inquiries, their answers failed to answer my specific questions. I am very happy to have the opportunity to voice my concerns in your forum. It is my hope that you will allow my postings to be found on your front page so players can easily locate information on the Winabingo site.
Many thanks,
Cabakers

To Bingo Players Union (BPU) Administrators:

I was recently banned from participating in the Winabingo Chat forum because Winabingo administrators were angered because I posted on my Facebook a link to the Bingo Players Union (BPU), an excellent site that provides information to help players become savvy when playing bingo online. I specifically linked my Face book to the Bingo Players Union and a topic discussion posting titled “Winabingo.Read Rules carefully.”This link contains 8 pages of complaints made by Bingo players regarding Winabingo’s unscrupulous and fraudulent activities.


Best to all. Cabakers

To Bingo Players Union administrators:
Please find below copy of my 'live chat' with Winabingo Host Xander.

Winabingo Live Support

May 16, 2010 - 6:30 pm

cabakers: is a host available?


You are now speaking with Xander of Support.

cabakers: Host, why can’t I I get on chat?

Xander: i check some comments that you put in facebook abut the site

cabakers: Oh, what are you referring to?

cabakers: Host, is there something in your official rules that states players are not allowed to talk about Winabingo on Facebook or provide a link to the BINGO PLAYERS UNION?

cabakers: Host, can you please respond?

Xander: many players sent comments about this

Xander: all information was senty to my boss

cabakers: Host, Many players have legitimate concerns regarding your house players and other potentially fraudulent activities on this site. It is good you sent the information to your boss. I appreciate that.

cabakers: Hosts will not answer questions regarding house players. This concerns real players. Can you understand that?

cabakers: It is reasonable that players have their questions answered regarding house players and the non - payment of winnings to real players.

cabakers: Who is your boss, Host? Perhaps, if your boss is willing to speak with me, we can resolve the matter?

cabakers: Would you please respond host?
Xander: sorry

Xander: im busy 


cabakers: I see. You are too busy to respond host?

Xander: Im the supervisor in charge

cabakers: Ok ,but you said you sent the information on my Facebook to your boss? May I please speak with your supervisor?

Xander: Im the supervisor

Xander: again, The problem is this many players back on support talking abiut your comments

Xander: only i need this

cabakers: Host I understand you are a supervisor but you spoke of your boss so I assume you have a superior. It seems appropriate that I be allowed to speak to your boss regarding concerns about possible fraudulent activities………. unless you are able to provide me the information.

cabakers: Are you not allowed to respond to these type of questions?

Xander: Site is100% real players

Xander: What fraudulunt actities?

Xander: ?

cabakers: The first potentially fraudulent activity is that your site has house players. It is not unreasonable that real players have concerns and have inquired about this. Can you tell me about the house players?

Xander: All players are real

cabakers: The second potentially fraudulent activity is regarding the non- payment of winnings to players who have requested a withdrawl of their winnings.

Xander: You can email support@winabingo.com

Xander: You are banned for 48 hours.

cabakers: Host, who are your house players?

Xander: Have a great night

here is a link to that topic: http://bingoplayersunion.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1175&hilit=winabingo

To Bingo Players Union Administrators:

[color=#0000FF]Please find below information about WINABINGO'S OFFICIAL RULES/ TERMS OF USE( IN PART). After I began my battle with their administrators, they removed the OFFICIAL RULES/ TERMS OF USE from their site.



[b][color=#800000] May 19, 2010

To Winabingo Players:

Please find below pertinent information regarding house players at Winabingo.

I am graduate in Paralegal Studies from UCLA. I am not at attorney and cannot provide legal advice. I have some training in contractual law and am familiar with deliberate, ambiguous and vague legal terminology attorney’s use when drafting Contracts, Terms of Use Agreements or Company Rules. Please allow this to serve as an educated opinion and interpretation of Winabingo’s rules as they pertain to house players.

I would encourage any player who spends money at Winabingo to carefully read their Terms Of Use. You can find the link at the bottom right corner of the Home page in tiny letters. You can also find it on the Internet using the word search - Winabingo Official Rules.

A deliberate effort has been made by Winabingo administrators to make it difficult for players to locate and/or interpret their Terms Of Use information on their site. This document addresses specific Terms Of Use that pertains to house players at Winabingo. I have copied the specific terms in Bold Red Font below but recommend players read their entire Terms Of Use agreement.

Winabingo hosts will ban you from chat their chat room if you discuss or inquire about their rules regarding their house players. Ironically, Winabingo’s Terms and Use Agreement has no official rule that forbids a player from discussing or inquiring about their rules in the chat room. Nevertheless, it is forbidden, and as some of you have seen, players are banned from Winabingo’s chat room for inquiring about their house players.

It is perfectly reasonable for a player who is paying for a service to inquire, discuss or ask a chat host to explain the rules regarding house players. If there is nothing to hide, there should be no reason Winabingo hosts continually refuse to respond and then ban members from making an inquiry.

I hope the below interpretation provides Winabingo players some assistance and allows those who spend money on their site are playing against house players on a daily basis.




WINABINGO OFFICIAL RULES (IN PART)[/color][/b][/color]


"House Account" means an account held by a Representative of Winabingo may be used to monitor or play games from time to time, subject to the restrictions contained in these rules.

In regards to the specific text above, bingo players at Win bingo should understand a Representative of Winabingo that holds a house account is a Representative house player.

A Representative House Player may or may not receive some form of compensation.
A Representative House Player may or may not be affiliated with another Bingo site.
A Representative House Player can be another person “helping out another person or company.”
A Representative House Player will have a user name and appear to be a real player to unsuspecting bingo players.
A Representative House Player can also be a software robot(s) that pretend to be real players.
A Representative House player wins games frequently in order to funnel money into the company.
A Representative House player substantially reduces the chance that a real player will win.
A Representative House player wins money for the company while playing against real players who are spending money.
A Representative House player’s winnings are generally funneled back into the company and used over and over again to play against other players.
A Representative House player’s funds originate from the pockets of real bingo players who unsuspectingly purchase cards believing they are playing against real players.

In regards to the specific text above, bingo players at Winabingo should understand the definition of the term.... ‘Time to Time.’

‘Time to Time’ means things that occur in a non-consecutive order.

‘Time to Time’ is an ambiguous and vague term contractual attorneys use to avoid using language that would otherwise bind the company to perform a specific duty.

A Representative house player at Winabingo who plays from ‘Time to Time’ plays any number of non-consecutive games per day, week or month. The actual number of times a Representative house player participates and wins is unknown to real players. It is reasonable to assume Representative house players play against real players multiple times daily.

WINABINGO RULE 6.5 House Account Wagers. House accounts may from time to time play games and will use cash, cash winnings, bonus, bonus winnings, or bingo bucks. All amounts purchased by house accounts will contribute to the amount winnable by all players in multi-player games (such as bingo) and to any applicable progressive jackpots in single player games.

House account representatives may use cash, cash winnings, bonus, bonus winnings and bingo bucks.

Generally speaking, cash is income Winabingo receives from players who makes deposits. The above rule allows Representative House players to use the cash that players deposit to play against players.

Similarly, cash winnings allow Representative House players to continue to play against real players whose money they already won, further reducing the chances of a real player winning.

Bonus, bonus winnings and bingo bucks is not real money. There is no way of knowing the amount of non- money win bingo gives or awards to Representative house players. However, it would not be unreasonable to assume the amount of non- money Representative house players use is significant .This rule further reduces the chances of a real player winning.


[color=#000000]WINABINGO RULE 7.15 House Accounts Never Withdraw. Any winnings made by a house account will always be left in the system so that they can be played from time to time in various games. In this way, house account winnings will, at some point, be available as part of the pool for players to win.[/color]

In regards to the specific text above, bingo players at Winabingo should understand the definition of House Accounts Never Withdraw and house account winnings will, at some point, be available as part of the pool for players to win.

House Accounts Never Withdraw means Representative house players winnings are funneled back into the company to be played over and over again against real players.

‘At Some Point’ is similar to the term ‘Time to Time’. It is an ambiguous and vague term contractual attorneys use to avoid using language that would otherwise bind the company to perform a specific duty.

House Account Winnings Will, At Some Point, Be Available As part Of The Pool For Players To Win means that Representative house players winnings will at some time use their winnings to add to the pool.

The important thing to remember is that real players competing against with Representative House players significantly reduces a real player’s chance of winning because:

1) A single player generally has limited funds and is using real money.

2) Representative House players have unlimited amounts of real money already won from unsuspecting real players deposits and unlimited non-money funds (bonus, bonus winnings and bingo bucks provided to them by the company.

3) Maximum cards would be purchased by Representative House players in a single game, clearly tilting the odds of a win in his/her direction.

Feel free to forward this and the additional documents and links I am emailing regarding Winabingo to your bingo friends or copying and posting the information in any forum. I am unconcerned whether or not this document and all others I am publicly providing is forwarded to Winabingo administrators. I recognize that my account will be immediately closed as a result of providing the information.

I was recently banned from participating in the Win bingo Chat forum because Winabingo administrators were angered because I posted on my Facebook a link to the Bingo Players Union (BPU), an excellent site that provides information to help players become savvy when playing bingo online. I specifically linked my Face book to the Bingo Players Union and a topic discussion posting titled “Winabingo.Read Rules carefully.” This link contains 8 pages of complaints made by Bingo players regarding Winabingo’s unscrupulous and fraudulent activities.


Best to all. Cabakers

To Bingo Players Union Administrators:

The below post is for players to better understand what a house players is and help players identify Bingo sites that use house players.


What are House Players at Bingo Sites

Unfortunately, some less than reputable online bingo websites have been known to employ what are called “house players” on their websites. House players are usually not people at all but essentially software robots that pretend to be players in order to have a place to funnel winnings. These robots simply win the games frequently in order to prevent other, real players from winning any money. Some sites have been found to be operating as many as 20 house players at a time to prevent any money from going out in a night. This is a dishonest and unfair practice. Luckily, there are some warning signs that you can use to identify when a website is using house players and how you can avoid becoming part of the scam. This article will review some of the warning signs and steps that you can observe to prevent your money from being robbed from your account by house players. You may not be able to identify every house player that emerges on a website, but you can certainly catch the very bad ones that significantly alter the way the game plays.

Just Too Lucky

If you notice that the same username has been winning bingo games repeatedly in the same session, you may have caught a house player. Sometimes, people get lucky and win several games in a session; you even hope that that player is yourself. However, it is not normal for a player to win every third or fourth game throughout a game session. If this is occurring, find another game (or even another website) in which to invest your money.

Unchanging Pot

Winning bingo card amounts are usually determined by the amount of players participating in the game. The more players that are participating, the more money each winning card is worth. However, house players are usually not people and some software will not recognize them as such. Therefore, if the pot stays the same size with 40 players as it did 20, you may be playing a game with 20 house players. Bingo scam artists are often just not smart enough to catch this simple software glitch. If they were smart enough, they would find legitimate ways to make money.

Payout Patterns

If you are in a game with multiple house players, you may be able to catch on by observing payout patterns. Some websites seat real players on even numbers and house players on odd chairs. They will alternate payouts to do only even numbers for two games and then odd numbers for one when determining winners. In this way, they keep real people winning once every three games. This type of system can be difficult to catch. However, it is subject to pattern recognition. If you notice payout patterns during games, you are likely playing with house players.

Just Too Unlucky

You will win at bingo every once in a while. With maxed cards, you will likely win once every session. If you are dropping a great deal of money into websites and still not winning any cards, you are likely playing against severely tilted odds through house players. This is one warning sign that you can catch even if the house players are real players. If you are becoming frustrated when playing bingo, you should find a different online bingo website. Patience is the key to success but too much patience can be foolish.

To: Bingo Player Union Administrators:

Please find below a copy of my email to Winabingo Administrators and their response.

Date : May 31, 2010 12:19 PM

Hello:
I noticed your website has changed as well as your terms and conditions. There is no longer any information under your Terms and Conditions that discusses your house players.
Are you still using House Players who play against real players? What are the names of your house players? How often do your house players compete against real players? Are your game winners still predetermined before the game starts? I look forward to recieving a response at your earliest convenience.

Respectfully, cabakers
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RESPONSE RECEIVED FROM WINABINGO

5/31/10 1:17:12 PM, support@winabingo.com writes:


Hi:
Sphere bingo group uses the most modern and sophisticated bingo software available anywhere. All cards and ball calls are produced by a complex random number generator, which cannot be programmed or tampered with. Our software has been thoroughly audited and tested in line with the biggest and best real world bingo halls worldwide.

Furthermore, we do not allow any staff or family members to play our games, and we certainly do not allow house players. This ensures there is never any suspicions that our games are not strictly fair and honest.Don’t hesitate to contact us if we can be of any further assistance.
Kind Regards,
Member Services

To: Bingo Player Union Administrators:

Please find below a copy of my response to their reply and their 2nd response.

Date : May 31, 2010
Hello:
Thank you for your response. However, your previous rules states "House Account" means an account held by a Representative of Winabingo and are used to monitor or play games from time to time." You are stating family or employees do not play. However, it is clear you do have Representatives of Winabingo who play games against real players? Who are your representatives that play against real players? Are you saying that your Representatives of Winabingo who hold House Accounts no longer play against real players? If you no longer use Representative House Players to play against real players, can you please tell me when you ceased from using house players and the names of those house representative players?

The Bingo Payers Union website has multiple complaints that date back to 2006 regarding your site using house players.

I wanted to allow you an opportunity to respond honestly and be forthcoming before addressing that matter publicly. Looking forward to your response.

Respectfully,
cabakers

-----------------------------------------------------------------
WINABINGO RESPONSE

Hi:
Thank you for your reply, As it was stated in the email we do NOT now allow house players. If your not aware of this winabingo.com is now under the supervision of the sphere network.This move went live on Friday 5-28, you can check out our new sites terms and conditions to our rules.

http://support.spheregaming.com/index.p ... se&_a=view

We do hope to see you on the site, as we offer the best games and promotions on the internet. Look for to see you again
Kind Regards,
Member Services

To: Bingo Player Union Administrators:

Please find below a copy of my response to Winabingo to their reply and their 3rd response.

Hello again:
The link you provided me sent me back to your support center and provides only the following information as they pertain to your terms, rules and conditions.

The application of the software by the User shall be made exclusively in accordance with, and governed by, our rules and instructions as detailed in the software and/or on our network of Internet web sites from time to time, including, without limitation, in respect of the gambling methods, playing rules, payment procedures, and payoffs of winnings.

Where are your rules and instructions that you state is 'detailed in the software and/or on our network of Internet web sites'

Please respond to the specific questions asked in my previous email. I have copied them for you here again.
1) You are stating family or employees do not play. However, it is clear you do have Representatives of Winabingo who play games against real players? Who are the represenatives of Winabingo that play against real players?

2) If you no longer use Representatives of Winabingo to play against real players, can you please provide the the date you ceased from using house players and please provide the player names of those house representatives?

Looking forward to receiving a a direct answer to my specific questions.
Respectfully, cabakers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
WINABINGO RESPONSE

Hi:
Let me introduce myself to you, I am Pamela and I am the chat manager. The Sphere bingo group does not now nor ever allowed house players, Or our staff nor their family are allowed to play on any of our sites. We have been in the business for many years, and from day one we have never allowed this. We now run winabingo, and it now follows our rules. So please rest assure, that we do not have house players, nor staff playing here.

Kind Regards
Pamela

To: Bingo Player Union Administrators:

Please find below a copy of my response to Winabingo to their reply and their 4th response.

Pamela:
Thank you so much for responding. I understand that staff and family members are not allowed to play on your new site. Are their any representatives, friends, persons, or software bots or any other entity whatsoever (whether paid or unpaid) that participate in games with real depositing players at Winabingo?
As I am certain you are aware, Winabingo has a history of using house representative players and of predetermining their winners. I have been asked to respond to multiple players inquiries and want to be sure your company which now runs Winabingo has a fair shot at responding and acknowledging that Winabingo did use fraudulent practices by using 'representatives' who played with real players and also predetermined their winners.
Certainly, such acknowledgment would be a step in the right direction and allow current and new Winabingo players to feel secure while playing at that site. Loooking forward to your reply. Respectfully, cabakers
------------------------------------------------------------------------

WINABINGO RESPONSE

Hello,
As I explained in my other email. NO and let me repeat this again NO One that works here, Nor any of their family. Can play here. We have never had house players and we never will.Like I also stated in my previous email I do not know what winabingo did in the past, we do not do that here. We have been in business for many years and we are a fair and honest site.

Kind Regards,
Pamela

To: Bingo Player Union Administrators:

Please find below a copy of my response to Winabingo dated June 1, 2010. As of today June 9th, 2010 Winabingo has not responded.

Winabingo has failed to respond.

Dear Pamela:

Your previous email states, "I do not know what Winabingo did in the past." In all due respect, there is absolutely no way any reputable company who has chosen to run or support another business would commence a business relationship without fully researching that company's past history. Your company is fully aware of Winabingo's fraudulent history.

Your previous email states, "No One that works here, nor any of their family can play here. We have never had house players and we never will."
You have repeated this in two of your mails and I have acknowledged your response.
As I am certain you are aware, house players are not necessarily employees, or friends. My last email specifically asks: "Are their any representatives, persons, software bots or any other entity whatsoever, whether paid or unpaid that participate in games with real depositing players at Winabingo?" Would you please respond to this specific question?

It is my understanding that you are a software company. Are you also the new administrators of Winabingo? If so, would you please allow me to know what your company procedures are for monitoring whether or not Winabingo will now follow the rules? Does your company's software have the ability to monitor whether WInabingo administrators are now following the rules? How might your company or your company's software know whether Winabingo is in compliance? Is it not possible that Winabingo could use representatives who play against other players without your knowledge?

Winabingo has been engaging in fraudulent practices by using 'representatives' who play with real players for years. Winabingo has been engaging in the preselection of winners for years in bingo and slot play.

What reassurances can you provide new and current Winabingo players that those practices have ceased?

Where can I locate further information or your new RULES AND INSTRUCTIONS that are posted on your NEW Winabingo site?

Your new rules and conditions ONLY state the following:

Rules and Instructions

The application of the software by the User shall be made exclusively in accordance with, and governed by, our rules and instructions as detailed in the software and/or on our network of Internet web sites from time to time, including, without limitation, in respect of the gambling methods, playing rules, payment procedures, and payoffs of winnings.

I have been unable to locate anything as stated above in your "software and/or network of Internet web sites" that provides any information pertaining to your 'gambling methods, playing rules, payment procedures, and payoffs of winnings' . Can you please provide me a link to that site or send me a copy?

In all due respect, I would appreciate your not repeating what you have stated in your previous emails. If you will simply review each specific question and provide a specific response to each question, we can avoid needless back and forth banter and I can pass on the information.

Respectfully,
cabakers

To: Bingo Player Union Administrators:

Winabingo failed to respond to my last email. According to a previous email from Pamela "Winabingo.com is now under the supervision of the Sphere network."

Isn't Sphere network a software company? Is is possible that this software company is really running and supervising Winabingo? Do software companies supervise online bingo sites? How does Sphere network know whether or not Winabingo is continuing to use house players? Why won't they respond to specific questions? Where are their NEW rules located? Why did they remove their old rules?
Maybe you can investigate and find out more. Thanks for the opportunity to post my concerns on your site.
cabakers

I am posting a link to this thread on our Facebook page! This may get some answers and also help out in your efforts to warn players and help them understand more about "house players".. If I may add to that, what about the thousands of bonus bucks sites give to players who cannot withdraw if they win? IMO this is yet another description of a house player.

link to the facebook post:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic ... 0828155877