The reason I know that to be fact is because a few sites that I have played at I have never had a problem with and have NEVER seen a bad thing posted or written about them anywhere, so in my books that's an honest site that doesn't cheat don't you think?



I didn't really mean they deserve what they get, I meant that if you take a job outside of your country that doesn't require them to follow any labor laws then you have to roll with the punches.

Where I live the amount you are allowed to make without putting in a tax claim is $3,000.00, i'm sure all chat hosts that don't get paid in bbs make way more than that in a year.



Again sorry I should have made myself more clear once again, I was talking about people working under the table in North America. I'm pretty sure anyone working as a chat host in the U.K has to claim their earnings because I think the site has to send tax forms to those working there, but i'm not positive about that, so I am referring only to those working from North America.

Babysdream said:

"I didn't really mean they deserve what they get, I meant that if you take a job outside of your country that doesn't require them to follow any labor laws then you have to roll with the punches. "



If you gamble online outside of your country also, where there are no national laws governing operation and function, you must "roll with the punches? That is the reality as of this date perhaps and many site owners and huge corporations are flourishing on a philosophy of " get it anyway you can because Americans have no recourse if you blindside them with devious rules...they have to roll with the punches if there going to gamble online".

The sites you , yourself have played at, may have not yet attempted to swindle you or perform feats of funds disappearing before your eyes, but that does not make them comparable or on a level with regulated, commission controlled gaming that is legislated and monitored.
They make the rules and can change them at any time they desire without notification, and every player is alerted of this in the rules at most gaming sites. If this doesnt say "BEWARE' to a player, then they have loose comprehension skills.
Just because you have not been cheated, to your knowledge, that does not make a site clean of corruption or deviation. That simply means YOU have not had a problem with the site. Of all the people depositing and playing at any given site, some have no trouble at all, while others playing may experience problematic issues. We can not infer then that the player is at fault because others are not having a problem, can we?
If there indeed can be "token" winners at a site, why not "token" losers?

I do not think anyone is in the position or in possession of such knowledge to declare any site corruption free or loaded with "shills". We all speak of our own experiences only in terms of relating to and dealing with online bingo sites in a personal venue. Some are good....some are bad.
If one deposits according to the schedule of a site, behaves in chat in the manner dictated by the owners, requests withdraws on days they name,
do not attempt to "bonus abuse", do not have "site declared" multiple accounts, do not win inordinate amounts regularly, do not question the decisions or operations of a site, and accept also without question the occasional software "glitches", they stand a good chance of not having a problem.

A site does not attain the status of "honest" simply because you have not seen anything negative about them. That may mean players just walked away knowing that it would do no good to contest a wrongful act, and in most cases they are making the right decision because it would be fruitless to pursue. It is usually the amount of money that is the deciding factor. If you felt a site cheated you out of 10 or 15 dollars, most likely you would walk away after trying to deal with collecting issues and deciding it is not worth the aggravation. But if it was 1,000 or 1,5000......then you end up going to a watchdog group or telling the story to every bingo related forum or site you can find. Some players have taken site representatives to court.
Read the rules of any site...they are ALL geared to turning over huge and unprecedented profits while claiming to be player friendly and available to their loyal depositing players 24 hours a day. That is,until you have a problem with them! Chat disabled......account closed...or you account will be in "review" for the next 6 months or more. This, unfortunately, seems to be S.O.P (standard operating procedure) that any site may evoke when necessary as "stated in their rules". It is solely and exclusively up to the management at a site how they will proceed in any given situation. If they want to deal fairly,then call yourself lucky..if not, call yourself screwed! Is that the time to "roll with the punches" because you have chosen to participate in a gaming venue that has NO REGULATION?

This thread and others would be easier to follow if you all would include who you are quoting! Try this before you quote: Type in So & So Said: than use the quote feature. It will look like this when you post:

So & So Said:

Dynamite said:



It's simple yes, follow the rules and you don't have a problem, so what's wrong with that? All things have rules you must follow big deal. The one rule you posted there "do not win inordinate amounts regularly" that's a new one for me. I have never played at a site that boots you for winning too much. I guess I play at the fair non cheater sites.

The fair sites I am talking about have thousands of members that stay there for a reason. They wouldn't keep playing if they felt they are being cheated.

Dynamite said:



That is my point exactly, do you not think over the course of a sites operation lets say 7-10 years there would be someone who was ripped off the big bucks, not just 10 or 15 dollars? Since there is nothing printed to that fact, to me that says the site is fair and doesn't cheat players.

Dynamite said:



I agree read the rules carefully at any site. All things pertaining to any form of gambling is geared to profit, or they wouldn't be in business so that statement is void. How do you know the site isn't loyal to it's players, if not for players they would not have a business.



Reputable sites that don't have people posting bad things about them will not let this happen. They will work with the player to find a reasonable solution. You said "if they want to deal fairly, then call yourself lucky"??? If they deal fairly yes call yourself lucky you found a good non cheater site to play at. Dynamite you are still balling all sites up into one big mess and it's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

babysdream said:




babys,, some find the rules not ok! The site has the last and final word with no 3rd party arbitration, no inclusion of bargaining agents, no further discussion! The multiple account rule is a huge offender in the scheme of online bingo. A site can create a player profile using your isp and info and call it sufficient documentation. Dont even say that cant happen because it has and does happen! You have more than one account..your account is disabled or closed and all money forfeited! End of story!
The rules and policies of bingo sites are very houseedged, more so, I would venture to guess, than a standard gambling commission would permit in an equitable regulated gaming establishment. The playthrough, the withdrawal policy, the total control over making singular decisions on a per person basis at their discretion, not to mention the chat games that are played strictly in faith that the site is not biased and will be fair. NO ONE monitors. Now to houseplayers. a "theory" that no one can seem to prove or disprove. You , or no one can say with assurance that a site does or does not have houseplayers. NO ONE monitors.

If you think that it is ok for a site to steal 10 or 15 dollars as long as no one complains the site is "clean"? If they havent had any major complaints of big ripoffs posted in forums or bingo boards? multiply that 10 or 15 dollars that goes "unposted " by paying players by several hundred week after week. There is no written rule that says 'you may not win too much at once" but it is very strange that most of the complaints that come to this forum have sites owing them big bucks they won even tho they say they never had trouble there cashing out smaller amounts, often over a number of years. Suddenly they have "multiple accounts', bank problems, accountant mixups, or a variety of other problems that never seemed to exist before. Time to wake up and smell the coffee!




Well, no kidding they have to make a profit or they wouldnt be in business. I am not at all saying they are not entitled to a profit, I am saying they are NOT entitled to make a profit thru deception, trickery, or outrageous self serving rules.





I have never at anytime said that ALL sites cheat! That is the second time you have attributed that remark or sentiment to me. What I said (again) is that all sites have the compensity and ability to cheat! Some sites may not have to resort to a bit of underhanded dealing to maintain a profit margin, especially in this time of the US ban, and others may decide to use shady tactics as a general rule. Using Western Union, by the way.is illegal for money transfers,but sites are still advocating that method of transfer. I have personally seen sites ask you to type out in a chatroom that you are NOT from the USA, even if you are, so that they may then take your money while covering their backside. One site originally posted rules here that contained houseplayers as part of the normal operational play.
Again I say, if you have found a site that you trust, then by all means,deposit, play and enjoy. But there are CHEATER sites out there, make no mistake about that. The sites working with players towards a FAIR resolution? All complaints start with the player addressing the support at a sight to resolve a matter, or that is the logical thing to do. Why are there so many complaints all over the internet, at many forums and review sites about offline bingosites not willing to "work" with them but quite willing to make an insignigicant gesture or ignore them altogether . Your favorite sites may not be cheating YOU, and that is your experience, and a good one to boot, but dont negate the many that have been cheated. I bet if you looked closely, you might even find a few that have had BAD experiences with your sites too. it is a possibility in this realm of unregulated free for alls.

Might as well save our breath dyna, she ain't gonna listen to ANY warnings or heed any advice, cuz for one SHE'S AN ADDICT, just like most of us have been. I think it's funny you (Dyna) and I have been told we twist her words around but it's ok for her to twist ours around and see her own meanings.

Babys, all I can say is, you have the right to feel the way you feel, play where you want to play, and trust what sites you want to trust. Good luck and may YOU never get screwed or cheated....cuz I don't think I'd be able to walk away and not say you've been warned.

Had my say, don't think any one of us has really been HEARD, so I'm deciding to wish her (Babysdream) good luck and may you always have the fortune to never meet up with ANY sites changed rules (at their discretion) and be screwed.

I think babysdream is a dyed in the wool bingo addict.lol And loyal to the bone! it really is a shame because they are the ones so flabbergasted and shocked when " their" fair site tries to pull a fast one on them. They are not prepared for it and go on blithely beleiving whatever the site hosts and managers tell them. I hope she keeps all pertinent documentation just in case. This is not a time to be casting your faith and trust in offshore bingo sites! If you must deposit and play, regardless what site it is, doing so with caution and prudence will serve you well.

Reputable and fair sites don't use those tactics, that's what makes them reputable.

How long have you and brenn been around online bingo? I have been around it for many years so I know what to look for in a site you don't have to tell me that.



OMG you are so good at twisting it's just beyond comprehension. I never said it was alright, I just said that more than likely a bad site would have players losing more than just 10 or 15 bucks, so those sites you would see bad posts about but, if you see a site that has never had anything posted about it, then it must be a good site. Also how do you know that these players losing little amouts of money are out there, if there is not posts anywhere about them? You just keep making it up as you go along.




I agree cheater sites will do this but not the good sites that want to keep their good reputation.



That's true you never come out and say it, but reading all your posts anyone can see how you feel about all online bingo sites. I don't even know why you bother here, it's obvious to me that you don't give a lick about online bingo and you don't play online bingo. You are starting to sound like David and that's not a good thing lol.



I'm now an addict? OMFG you could not be more wrong about that. Now it's come down to personal attacks? I deposit maybe 30 bucks a month at bingo and let me tell you I withdraw way more than I deposit. I dont' have to listen to warnings I know how to spot them all, probably more than your or Dyna. You show me where I have twisted anyone's words around and I will correct it. I might have taken what you have said the wrong way but that's it. I am big enough to correct my mistakes are you?



I have been playing online for about 8 years now, I have been cheated twice when I first started to play and didn't know any better. I don't need warnings from you or anyone else for that matter. I know what to look for, probably better than you.



Again accusing me of being an addict, you don't know me from a hole in the ground but to insult me in that way is just a cheap shot and I will just sluff it off cause of where it's coming from. Cheap insults is not a good way to get a point across, and I am surprised that you being part of the Admin here that the others would let you away with that. If that's how this forum is run then I want no part of it anymore.



Here you go again, all sites either cheat now or will in the future, now if that is not you saying all sites cheat then I don't know what is LMAO. I guess you have a crystal ball you can look into to see the future. The site I play at now has been in business for 9 years, if they don't cheat players by now do you really think they ever will? NOPE!!



Do you think you came up with the concept of keeping documentation? I have been around since the first forum like this was around and believe me you are not the one that came up with that. And before you jump all over me and say "I never said I came up with it" the way you say it makes me think you do. One last thing I don't like being talked about in the third person, to do so is just bad manners.

As moderator of this thread, I have to agree with babysdream that this has gone far enough! I do not condone the name calling AT ALL! It is childish and serves no purpose. And besides, I don't think there is one of us who is a psychiatrist and can, in good conscience, or with the proper credentials, "diagnose" ANYONE.

Babys has found a site (or two) that she is happy with. She sounds like a "seasoned player" and appears to "know the ropes". I can't and won't speak for any of the other staff at BPU, but if a person is happy with a site.. it is THEIR business!

It has been brought to my attention more than once that the staff of BPU are 100% anti online bingo. For the record I can state my personal feelings about this. I do not think ALL online bingo sites cheat their players. I know for a fact some have cheated their players. The proof is in the threads here at BPU.

I am not "anti online bingo". What my problem is are two of their rules and so far both rules have been at every site I have researched or played at.

Number one is the fact they reserve the right to change any rule at any time for any reason they see fit. Number two is that they can close accounts at any time for any reason they see fit.

Where that leaves me (in my opinion only), is with the RIGHT to decide what I want to do about it, and not have to look for approval from, nor be downgraded by anyone concerning that same decision.

I loved online bingo.... REALLY LOVED IT!! I would venture to say that if a site added to their rules that they would invite an impartial 3rd party arbitrator IN CASE OF an issue, and abide by that arbitrators decision, I may change my mind about never playing again. Another assurance that wouldn't hurt my feelings, would be that the software providers could guarantee that the site owners or managers would not have the ability to "manipulate" the software to any degree. It is my feeling that this software is already developed for the house to make money (as it should be), and that any further "adjusting" should only be allowed by the providers.. period.

I think (again only MY opinion) that the sites (generalizing) would not want to agree to a players set of rules that left them in a "my way or the highway" position.

Bottom line is, for me, being a part of this forum in any capacity was and is to be a voice for those who have asked for help for any reason. That includes players AND sites. This job is a "damned if ya do and damned if ya don't" one but I like it, I need it and I will keep doin it!!

Bren said:




notice in that statement I lumped in "most of us". And if you withdraw more than you deposit then you are the exception, and obviously have tremendous luck.

I agree to disagree with you on most everything you have said.

I must say, I feel that I've been subtly put down for my beliefs and for the way I feel people should or shouldn't be treated. I came right out and said offensive words, but I've read and taken subtle put downs long enough. I've been told (lumping me in with all CMs here) if I want to work in the industry I'd better be willing to accept and put up with the treatment I so adamantly oppose. To me that's a put down. I'll probably be told that I'm twisting words again, when over and over I see her saying the same things. What I'm stating here is only my opinion and my feelings, I'm not twisting anyone's words. Here is what I will say in MY OWN defense of my beliefs and then I'M DONE arguing this with you babys:

I have every right to expect to be treated with respect at ANY damn job I EVER work at, regardless of who or what that job is just as long as I do the job to the best of my ability, regardless of what industry I choose to work in. Being treated with respect and courtesy are NOT wrong to EXPECT. That is ALLLLLLL I have ever tried to get across.

It irks me and upsets me to be TOLD by someone who has ~been around online bingo~ for 8 years (or however long) that anyone that takes a CM job (or a job being paid under the table, just so I don't mess this semi-quote up) should expect to receive the kind of treatment that has been received by some online companies. If someone had told me when taking that job that I'd be treated the way I was, I'd have told them to stuff the job. It was presented to me like any other job I've ever had. I'd be expected to treat this as a "real job" and do my job like any other job out there. So, being told that (not that I NEED to be told) I did my job to the best of my ability and then some. I went above and beyond the call of duty in many cases and on many occasions, as I know many of the people that have been treated harshly also did. If they expected the world from us, they should know we expect the same from them. And we shouldn't be TOLD by anyone that we should expect less.

Maybe I'm wrong in taking this personally, but I DO.

PERIOD.

Thank you Sissy for your words, I am happy that all Admin here don't follow dynamite's example.



If you see that as a put down, I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be looking at it that way, it's a fact and wasn't meant to be a put down. The difference here is I am telling you like it is in a job perspective, not a personal one, but you are assuming you know me personally, and labeling me as such, something I have never done to anyone here.



Of course you deserve that, everyone does, that does not make it so however.




That statement tells me you have never worked under the table before, or should I say got burned from working under the table, or you would not have taken the job in the first place. Is that correct?




It's not luck, it's playing smart, and not getting sucked into playing max cards all the time. People that play max may appear to win a lot but get burned in the end and spend way more than they win.

I have not called anyone a negative name nor intended to even imply such a rude "speak"
Babys , I am sorry if you dont like my stand on online bingo behavior,but I do not think ALL online bingos cheat and made that clear ....more than oncel . I think you have misconstrued my feelings or I have not been clear enough. I have told you several times i am happy you have a site you trust and I wish you luck there.
I will not take that away from you, and I dont intend to allow my OPINIONS to be negated either. I do know the difference between opinion and fact. When something is a fact I state it and am prepared to 'show" where or how I arrived at a conclusion that I consider factual.

I do wish you big luck babys..I hope you take home a whopping amount.
In fact, that is what I would like for each and every depositing player at any site! Not only that they win,but that they actually get to witdraw the money.

How does this seem to get sooooo far off base at times.
dyna says:I have not called anyone a negative name nor intended to even imply such a rude "speak"


(Your defiantly calling them something. Just not sure what word you really wanted to call whoever (someone in general who is lonely and plays bingo)
And you may very well be 100% right but its still calling them a name or insinuating something that is a negative statement buy the following of your post.


(again your probably right but its still wrong to word it as if they are not so smart or their load is a few bricks shy)



Again I am sure your not off base but still could have found a nicer way of putting that into words to not offend anyone either the person reading the post or the person being writen about.

(if that’s not a negative name please by all mean do tell what it is)

My whole point to my post here is to say please don’t say you have not called anyone a negative name cause you more then have. As well as probably every other person in the world at one time or another. I would just like to at least see it in the forums as well as an admin for bpu that you do in fact admit to your doings weather they are good, bad, right, or wrong doesn’t matter as long as you see you do put names to a lot of different things and that you can admit that you do that.

I just have one thing to ask here .. Please.


We have so been looking forward to hearing about some honest & fair site(s) please do share with all of us who these are.

PS Sissy,, I couldn't agree more about your feelings regarding Online Bingo.

I BEEN THERE/ Missy